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Which Cyberdesign was the best:-
"The Tenth Planet" - Cumbersome, cloth-faced specters.
 26%  [ 5 ]
"Moonbase/Tomb of the Cybermen" - Ghostly postmen, with letterbox mouths.
 15%  [ 3 ]
"The Wheel in Space" - Rubber fetishists, with a fixation for calipers.
 10%  [ 2 ]
"The Invasion" - Hard and cold gimp-zombies, who scream.
 26%  [ 5 ]
"Revenge of the Cybermen" - A bunch of idiots in flairs.
 5%  [ 1 ]
"Earthshock/Five Doctors/Attack of the Cybermen" - Spidery sadists, with a touch of Vader and Imperial Storm Trooper.
 15%  [ 3 ]
"Silver Nemesis" - Chrome plaited twats, with an aversion to gold tipped arrows.
 0%  [ 0 ]
"Rise of the Cybermen/The Age of Steel/Army of Ghosts/Doomsday/The Next Doctor" - Microcephalic, tin pansies.
 0%  [ 0 ]
Total Votes : 19

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B3



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

xM002x wrote:
Wheel In Space voices were the best, imo. "You know ooour waaaaaAAAAys" and the suits are good actually.


I agree. I love the look of the Wheel in Space Cybermen, their voices are great, and the delivery of that line is wonderful.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

As for logic, again, the Cybermen go on about it a lot, but frequently come up with schemes that are anything but logical. Their plans, actions and motivations in “The Moonbase,” “The Tomb of the Cybermen,” “The Wheel in Space,” “Revenge of the Cybermen, “Attack of the Cybermen,” “Silver Nemesis,” “Army of Ghosts/Doomsday” and “The Next Doctor” are completely screwy.


Yes, of course but you didn't have them going around saying "Excellent!". It just makes no sense when you actually think about it. They are a bunch of near enough robots with absolutely no emotions. I know a lot of Doctor Who doesn't really make sense but that's not the point. Going around clenching fists and saying "EXXXXCEELLLLENT!" just looks like a completely joke. It just isn't scary. When they are totally numb, almost lifeless, and talk like a computer -- now thats scary!
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Tattooed Beast Messiah



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="xM002x"]
Quote:

Yes, of course but you didn't have them going around saying "Excellent!". It just makes no sense when you actually think about it. They are a bunch of near enough robots with absolutely no emotions.


But the Cybermen do have emotions, and they express them in all but two stories from the classic period, "The Wheel in Space," and "The Invasion," and I'm a bit dubious about "The Wheel in Space." The Cyberman's killing of Jarvis Bennett appears overly sadistic to me, what with hoisting him into the air, slamming him onto the ground and then shooting him, and their rubber and bondage fetishistic look suggests something more like suppressed hysteria than unemotion.


Quote:
I know a lot of Doctor Who doesn't really make sense but that's not the point. Going around clenching fists and saying "EXXXXCEELLLLENT!" just looks like a completely joke.


No more of a joke then saying, "We will survive" (Tomb), or "Resistance is useless," (The Tenth Planet, Moonbase), or "You know our ways" (Wheel).


Quote:
It just isn't scary. When they are totally numb, almost lifeless, and talk like a computer -- now thats scary!


Or very boring. The reason the Cybermen sounded more emotional in the 80s was so they could be given more screen time. David Banks' Cyberleader became a recurring character in his own right.

In contrast, for the adventures where the Cybermen sound flat and 'emotionless,' the majority of the story is carried by the human characters. Tobius Vaughn dominates "The Invasion" because the Cybermen are so cold and alien. In "The Wheel in Space" we have a kind of pop culture Freudian set up, with kinky, sadomasochistic Cybermen on the one side and Jarvis Bennett (distant, suppressed, authoritarian father figure) and Doctor Gemma Corwyn (clinical psychoanalyst mother figure), on the other. That leaves Zoe (emotionally suppressed librarian, with a penchant for being spanked) as the surrogate daughter. By the end of the story, Jarvis, Gemma and the Cybermen have all been killed, and if Zoe had not left with the Doctor and Jamie, then Leo Ryan and Tanya Lernov (both warm, witty, caring and above all, normal), would have become her new substitute parents (as indeed does happen at the end of "The War Games").
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iank



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree. The computer-voices send me to sleep, and that's when I can even understand them, which isn't often.

Gimme Banksy any day.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

iank wrote:
Gimme Banksy any day.


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Tattooed Beast Messiah



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moderator General wrote:
iank wrote:
Gimme Banksy any day.




"EXXXXCEELLLLENT!"
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FlapjackCharlie



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

xM002x wrote:
Wheel In Space voices were the best, imo. "You know ooour waaaaaAAAAys" and the suits are good actually. Although, in the early episodes they only had one ring modulator-thingy to do the voices, so Roy Skelton had to do them himself!! He still managed to make them sound good. What a talent that man is. His Dalek voices piss all over "whats-his-face" from Nu-Who.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediaselector/check/doctorwho/classic/clips/ram/wheel_in_space02?size=4x3&bgc=CC0000&nbram=1&bbram=1


Briggs did excellent Cyberwork in Spare Parts, I loved the similarity of voices with Tenth Planet, which were very effective (and the commitee's Tomb-esque "We must survive" of course - superb). It's a shame we couldn't have that for the new cybermen. Actually, I'd much rather they'd just made a TV adaptation of Spare Parts than that parallel universe mad scientist garbage, but never mind.
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Tattooed Beast Messiah



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FlapjackCharlie wrote:
xM002x wrote:
Wheel In Space voices were the best, imo. "You know ooour waaaaaAAAAys" and the suits are good actually. Although, in the early episodes they only had one ring modulator-thingy to do the voices, so Roy Skelton had to do them himself!! He still managed to make them sound good. What a talent that man is. His Dalek voices piss all over "whats-his-face" from Nu-Who.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediaselector/check/doctorwho/classic/clips/ram/wheel_in_space02?size=4x3&bgc=CC0000&nbram=1&bbram=1


Briggs did excellent Cyberwork in Spare Parts, I loved the similarity of voices with Tenth Planet, which were very effective (and the commitee's Tomb-esque "We must survive" of course - superb). It's a shame we couldn't have that for the new cybermen. Actually, I'd much rather they'd just made a TV adaptation of Spare Parts than that parallel universe mad scientist garbage, but never mind.


There appears to be a Nu Who policy of not employing any writers who have worked on the classic TV series, and Marc Platt is one of those writers, so he gets excluded, which is a great shame, because "Spare Parts" is most probably the best Cyberman story ever written.
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FlapjackCharlie



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tattooed Beast Messiah wrote:
FlapjackCharlie wrote:
xM002x wrote:
Wheel In Space voices were the best, imo. "You know ooour waaaaaAAAAys" and the suits are good actually. Although, in the early episodes they only had one ring modulator-thingy to do the voices, so Roy Skelton had to do them himself!! He still managed to make them sound good. What a talent that man is. His Dalek voices piss all over "whats-his-face" from Nu-Who.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediaselector/check/doctorwho/classic/clips/ram/wheel_in_space02?size=4x3&bgc=CC0000&nbram=1&bbram=1


Briggs did excellent Cyberwork in Spare Parts, I loved the similarity of voices with Tenth Planet, which were very effective (and the commitee's Tomb-esque "We must survive" of course - superb). It's a shame we couldn't have that for the new cybermen. Actually, I'd much rather they'd just made a TV adaptation of Spare Parts than that parallel universe mad scientist garbage, but never mind.


There appears to be a Nu Who policy of not employing any writers who have worked on the classic TV series, and Marc Platt is one of those writers, so he gets excluded, which is a great shame, because "Spare Parts" is most probably the best Cyberman story ever written.


What's really bizarre is that Platt got a "with thanks to" credit at the end, and apparently a fee according to wiki, even though Rise is nothing like Spare Parts... not that he would be complaining I suppose. What's really annoying is that Rise probably rules out a Spare Parts adaptation for the foreseeable future (obviously the alternate-universe thing would make it possible, but it might be seen as confusing to new viewers unfortunately).

What I find amazing is that the most interesting Cybermen story - how and why they chose to become Cybermen in the first place - has never been produced on television, either in old or new Who.
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Tattooed Beast Messiah



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FlapjackCharlie wrote:
What's really bizarre is that Platt got a "with thanks to" credit at the end, and apparently a fee according to wiki, even though Rise is nothing like Spare Parts...


Platt was approached by the Nu Who production team who wanted to adapt his story, but didn't want him to be the adapter. Platt, quite understandably, refused. This was followed by a long silence from Upper Boat, who then wrote to Platt's agent saying that they didn't want to do “Spare Parts” after all. However, the agent then pointed out to Upper Boat that clearly they had listened to “Spare Parts” and therefore, if any bits of “Spare Parts” appeared in what became “Rise of the Cybermen/The Age of Steel,” then legal action would be taken. That's why Platt was given a credit and a fee. Arse covering, basically.

Quote:
What I find amazing is that the most interesting Cybermen story - how and why they chose to become Cybermen in the first place - has never been produced on television, either in old or new Who.


Gerry Davis came up with an idea many years ago called “Genesis of the Cybermen,” it was utterly terrible, and so was never made, however, it also probably ruled out any other possible "Cyberman creation” story from the classic series as, like Platt, Davis could have legitimately claimed it to have been his idea, and asked for a fee.
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The-Master



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Has there never been a Cyberman origins story?

I read somewhere that it was due to some disease epidemic and that cybernetics where used to replace failing limbs and organs and that as soon as mental augmentation was also possible through cybernetics the cold and logical cyber-race was born.

I have always thought the Cybermen looked like the borg under the helmet and what I have always thought was meant to be flexible armour rather than "skin" or futuristic overalls, in fact the bits of the cyber conversion process I remember from the original series has cyber converts stood upright in wall niches and resembling the borg more than a little bit, (complete with waxen greyish skin).


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Tattooed Beast Messiah



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The-Master wrote:
Has there never been a Cyberman origins story?


Yes. It's called "Spare Parts," and it was produced by Big Finish a few years back. It's very good.

Quote:
I read somewhere that it was due to some disease epidemic and that cybernetics where used to replace failing limbs and organs and that as soon as mental augmentation was also possible through cybernetics the cold and logical cyber-race was born.


On television, the only stuff we hear about the Cybermen's origins comes from "The Tenth Planet."

CYBERMAN 1: That is where we come from. It is called Mondas.
BEN: Mondas?
BARCLAY: Mondas? But isn't that one of the ancient names of Earth?
CYBERMAN 1: Yes. Aeons ago our planets were twins then we drifted away from you on a journey to the edge of space. Now we have returned.
BEN: You were right, Doctor.
BARCLAY: But who or what are you?
CYBERMAN 1: We are called Cybermen.
BARCLAY: Cybermen?
CYBERMAN 1: Yes, Cybermen. We were exactly like you once but our cybernetic scientists realised that our race was getting weak.
BARCLAY: Weak, how?
CYBERMAN 1: Our life span was getting shorter so our scientists and doctors devised spare parts for our bodies until we could be almost completely replaced.
POLLY: But... that means you're not like us. You're robots!
CYBERMAN 1: Our brains are just like yours except that certain weaknesses have been removed.
BARCLAY: Weaknesses? What weaknesses?
CYBERMAN 1: You call them emotions, do you not?


Quote:
I have always thought the Cybermen looked like the borg under the helmet and what I have always thought was meant to be flexible armour rather than "skin" or futuristic overalls, in fact the bits of the cyber conversion process I remember from the original series has cyber converts stood upright in wall niches and resembling the borg more than a little bit, (complete with waxen greyish skin).


In the 1950s there were rumours that the Soviets were conducting a series of secret space flights, and that many had ended in disaster. I think the Cybermen, as seen in their first story, look like the remains of dead Cosmonauts. Animated corpses cruelly kept alive by their own, overactive, life support systems. Space disasters, in one form or another, feature in almost all the Cybermen stories. However, as the writers moved further, and further away from the source material, the nature of the Cybermen inevitably changed.

In "The Wheel in Space," the Cybermen are reinvented, through cod Freudian psychology, as suppressed hysterics, with sadomasochistic tenancies, and this idea continued through into “The Invasion,” where we again have cold emotionless beings who, nevertheless, scream when forced to experience real feeling.

“The Invasion” also adds a new element to the mix by having the Cybermen, this time, represent the embodiment of industrialised and privatised death. A take, as it were, on the military-industrial complex.

Perhaps then, the ultimate Cyberman story is “Earthshock,” where you have the wasted spaceman look that recalls “The Tenth Planet,” the suppressed sadism of “The Wheel in Space,” and the commercial, industrialized warfare of “The Invasion,” all rolled into one.
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_Liam_
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

David Bank's book Cybermen contains a "Genesis of the Cybermen" short story by Gerry Davis. Early Targets have a potted creation story that retcons mondas
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Tattooed Beast Messiah



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

_Liam_ wrote:
David Bank's book Cybermen contains a "Genesis of the Cybermen" short story by Gerry Davis. Early Targets have a potted creation story that retcons mondas


I don't think it so much retcons Mondas, but rather contradicts "the Tenth Planet," both the TV version and Gerry Davis' own novelisation.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah it puts Telos as the homeplanet
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