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Deadly Assassin
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Mike



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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2009 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Newheiser wrote:
Both are now generally regarded as all-time classics.

And rightly so.
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B3



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PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2009 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Watched this last night.

The Deadly Assassin with commentary by Tom Baker, Philip Hinchcliffe, and Bernard Horsfall. Entertaining stuff with great affection shown for both the story and the late David Maloney. Good to hear Tom say that this story is one of his favourites.

Extras:

The Matrix Revisited

A solid "making of" documentary with good contributions from David Maloney and designer Roger Murray-Leach. Jan Vincent Rudzki's remarks just sound ridiculous; if he thinks that Gallifrey and the Time Lords shown in this story are "too human" he must loath everything about New Who. Let it go Jan. You were wrong.

The Gallifreyan Candidate

This short documentary really is excellent. Stacy Gillis (English Literature, Language, and Lingiustics, Newcastle University) and Andrew Shail (Professor of Poetry, University of Oxford) provide a wonderful account of the influence of The Manchurian Candidate on The Deadly Assassin. They focus on the satirical elements of both and their analysis really helps in the appreciation of this seminal Who story. If only all DVD extras could be this informative and intelligent. Which brings us on to...

The Frighten Factor

New Who turd-polishing alert! Deeply confused talking heads alert! Fuck me, this is hilarious for all the wrong reasons. Barry Letts, Terence Dicks, and Tom Spilsbury all make cogent remarks about how the show uses certain tropes to frighten the audience, especially children. It all goes horribly awry with the contributions of (soi-disant?) "Doctor Who expert" Alex Lydiate who seems at a loss to say anything of any note, and "TV archivist" Jim Sangster, who makes number of bizarre statements. He claims Terror of the Autons goes "too far" by showing authority figures such as policemen to be a threat (trying telling that to Ian Tomlinson). Surely the possessed or corrupted authority figure is a classic theme of science-fiction. This documentary is so muddled it needs serious editing to make it coherent. One moment we're being told that Classic Who is too "gory" to be made today, and then we're told that New Who is just as frightening. I especially liked the sequence of clips to show how the show has used everyday items to frighten the audience. Troll dolls fair enough, but comedy sub-Wizard of Oz scarecrows from Human Nature? Hardly everyday. For its faults, this documentary does do us a great service. By showing clips of Autons from Spearhead next to living plastic creatures from Rose we have conclusive proof that the 1969 versions are vastly superior to those from 2005.

Review of story to follow.
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RobFilth



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PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2009 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

B3 wrote:
For its faults, this documentary does do us a great service. By showing clips of Autons from Spearhead next to living plastic creatures from Rose we have conclusive proof that the 1969 versions are vastly superior to those from 2005.

Bill Baggs Autons and Nestines done on a budget of £50 were vastly superior to the Michael Jackson moonwalking Living Plastic Creatures, Burpy Wheelie Bins and their Shadow Proclamation Lava-God from 2005.
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B3



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PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2009 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RobFilth wrote:
B3 wrote:
For its faults, this documentary does do us a great service. By showing clips of Autons from Spearhead next to living plastic creatures from Rose we have conclusive proof that the 1969 versions are vastly superior to those from 2005.

Bill Baggs Autons and Nestines done on a budget of £50 were vastly superior to the Michael Jackson moonwalking Living Plastic Creatures, Burpy Wheelie Bins and their Shadow Proclamation Lava-God from 2005.


Oh, that's another thing that apparently has the "frighten factor" from New Who: Mickey stuck to the cartoon wheelie bin. Pathetic.
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Mistress Rani



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PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2009 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RobFilth wrote:
B3 wrote:
For its faults, this documentary does do us a great service. By showing clips of Autons from Spearhead next to living plastic creatures from Rose we have conclusive proof that the 1969 versions are vastly superior to those from 2005.

Bill Baggs Autons and Nestines done on a budget of £50 were vastly superior to the Michael Jackson moonwalking Living Plastic Creatures, Burpy Wheelie Bins and their Shadow Proclamation Lava-God from 2005.
No. Just no.
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Vector-Victor



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PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2009 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's hope the new production team have a look at DA and remember
how much thought and care once went into the series.

The Manchurian Candidate (old version) is one of my favourite
films, so it'll be interesting to watch DA again in this light.
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RobFilth



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PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2009 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mistress Rani wrote:
RobFilth wrote:
B3 wrote:
For its faults, this documentary does do us a great service. By showing clips of Autons from Spearhead next to living plastic creatures from Rose we have conclusive proof that the 1969 versions are vastly superior to those from 2005.

Bill Baggs Autons and Nestines done on a budget of £50 were vastly superior to the Michael Jackson moonwalking Living Plastic Creatures, Burpy Wheelie Bins and their Shadow Proclamation Lava-God from 2005.
No. Just no.

Yes. Just yes, Rani.

The BBV Auton trilogy pisses over the Roger Rabbit toon-town farce which was "Rose".

In fact I would say its more canon because it adheres to Classic Series continuity better.
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Mistress Rani



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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Utterly ridiculous. The BBV productions are decent amateur productions, no more.
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B3



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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mistress Rani wrote:
Utterly ridiculous. The BBV productions are decent amateur productions, no more.


True. So why do the Autons in Auton look better and are more threatening than the moon-walking Graham Norton living plastic creatures in Rose?
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Mistress Rani



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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

They don't though B, at least not to me. But each to their own.
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B3



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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mistress Rani wrote:
They don't though B, at least not to me. But each to their own.


For a start, the first appearance of the living plastic creatures in Rose doesn't make any sense. It is established that Autons become activated by a relay signal that is connected to the Nestene Consciousness. In Rose, they just suddenly activate for no reason (unless Graham Norton's voice was the signal). No threat is established, save Rose being in the basement of the store to collect the lottery money (an early sign of Davies's patronising prole characters and themes). There's no mystery, and little suspense. I would say that the 2005 living plastic creatures lack the sinister uncanniness of the Classic Series Autons for this very reason. The BBV productions show greater fidelity to Spearhead and Terror than does Rose. But then, Rose merely presages the lack of coherent narrative structure, suspense, characterisation, and understanding of Doctor Who that will plague the show in the following years.
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Mistress Rani



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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you remember the Doctor was also in that basement at the same time as he warned Rose. The Doctor was engaged in hunting the Nestene and clearly the Autons were activated as they were able to detect his presence.
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B3



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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mistress Rani wrote:
If you remember the Doctor was also in that basement at the same time as he warned Rose. The Doctor was engaged in hunting the Nestene and clearly the Autons were activated as they were able to detect his presence.


Surely the Pronuptia living plastic creatures were only activated after the London Eye transmitted the signal.
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Mistress Rani



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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

B3 wrote:
Mistress Rani wrote:
If you remember the Doctor was also in that basement at the same time as he warned Rose. The Doctor was engaged in hunting the Nestene and clearly the Autons were activated as they were able to detect his presence.


Surely the Pronuptia living plastic creatures were only activated after the London Eye transmitted the signal.
Those autons were activated at that point but surely the Nestenes always seemed able to selectively control individual units?
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"I expect the BBC will quietly let Tennant go at the end of this year...." RobFilth 9/6/08
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Mike



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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mistress Rani wrote:
B3 wrote:
Mistress Rani wrote:
If you remember the Doctor was also in that basement at the same time as he warned Rose. The Doctor was engaged in hunting the Nestene and clearly the Autons were activated as they were able to detect his presence.


Surely the Pronuptia living plastic creatures were only activated after the London Eye transmitted the signal.
Those autons were activated at that point but surely the Nestenes always seemed able to selectively control individual units?

I think Rani's got it with this one. In Spearhead individually controlled Autons could wake up and attack at the sense of danger (cliffhanger to episode two for example) but the full on attack comes with the signal from the Nestene later on (the scene with the policeman).
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