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Did RTD make the Daleks too super villainish?
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Snodgrass



Joined: 18 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2010 9:23 pm    Post subject: Did RTD make the Daleks too super villainish? Reply with quote

Personally, I noticed that the whole purpose of "Dalek" was simply to over-fetishise the Daleks. Honestly, it was essentially an advertisement, saying, OH LOOK, WE MADE THE DALEKS SUPER-POWERFUL, WAY BETTER THAN THOSE CRAPPY OLD ONES, EH?". Rolling Eyes

In the Classic Series, Daleks weren't invincible. They were immune to bullets, but they could be blown up with bombs and explosives, hell, they were ran over in "Dalek Invasion Earth". But in Classic Who, they weren't meant to be invincible. Sure they were armoured and they could hover( but not fly high in the sky like those stupid RTD Daleks.) way back in "The Chase".

What made the Daleks dangerous in the Classic Series was the fact that they were blood thirsty warmongers with a whole array of technology,super-weapons and war machines at their disposal. Not because "one Dalek could wipe out the entire US military".

Bullshit. Rolling Eyes
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Tash



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2010 9:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Did RTD make the Daleks too super villainish? Reply with quote

TheDarkLord wrote:
I don't agree.

They abandoned the super-hardness established in Dalek, and allowed them to become a fucking joke again, the kind of Joke that can be defeated with magic fairy dust, a couple of levers or by the incredibly mortifying Doctor-Donna operating a console that looked like a Tomy playset Rolling Eyes

RTD basically shat on all the good work Rob Shearman did to establish them as a threat again.


Agreed, they're always defeated way too easily now. In the old days the Doctor had to use all his intellect to outwit and defeat the Daleks, now all he has to do is summon his brain-dead assistant to kill them all for him and everyone lives happily ever after.
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Snodgrass



Joined: 18 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2010 9:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Did RTD make the Daleks too super villainish? Reply with quote

TheDarkLord wrote:
Snodgrass wrote:
Personally, I noticed that the whole purpose of "Dalek" was simply to over-fetishise the Daleks. Honestly, it was essentially an advertisement, saying, OH LOOK, WE MADE THE DALEKS SUPER-POWERFUL, WAY BETTER THAN THOSE CRAPPY OLD ONES, EH?". Rolling Eyes

In the Classic Series, Daleks weren't invincible. They were immune to bullets, but they could be blown up with bombs and explosives, hell, they were ran over in "Dalek Invasion Earth". But in Classic Who, they weren't meant to be invincible. Sure they were armoured and they could hover( but not fly high in the sky like those stupid RTD Daleks.) way back in "The Chase".

What made the Daleks dangerous in the Classic Series was the fact that they were blood thirsty warmongers with a whole array of technology,super-weapons and war machines at their disposal. Not because "one Dalek could wipe out the entire US military".

Bullshit. Rolling Eyes


I don't agree.

They abandoned the super-hardness established in Dalek, and allowed them to become a fucking joke again, the kind of Joke that can be defeated with magic fairy dust, a couple of levers or by the incredibly mortifying Doctor-Donna operating a console that looked like a Tomy playset Rolling Eyes

RTD basically shat on all the good work Rob Shearman did to establish them as a threat again.


On the contrary, because of the wank of "Dalek", every season ending required a crappy magical deus ex machina to defeat them.

Essentially, when you make a villian far too powerful, you'll end up using far more stupid ways of defeating them...which makes them seem an even bigger joke. Sad
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munkus



Joined: 02 Jul 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why should they be defeated everytime too. The beauty of the old Dalek stories was by the time they were stopped major damage had been done and the Doctor lost a little bit of himself. Look at Davinsons pain when he says he had the chance to stop them before, or how they were responsible partly for Kingdoms death. Again in Genesis the doctor didn't exactly win, and the same in Revelation.
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Tash



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

munkus wrote:
Why should they be defeated everytime too. The beauty of the old Dalek stories was by the time they were stopped major damage had been done and the Doctor lost a little bit of himself. Look at Davinsons pain when he says he had the chance to stop them before, or how they were responsible partly for Kingdoms death. Again in Genesis the doctor didn't exactly win, and the same in Revelation.


Exactly, and the Daleks nearly always win when the Doctor isn't involved.
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Vector-Victor



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 10:40 am    Post subject: Re: Did RTD make the Daleks too super villainish? Reply with quote

TheDarkLord wrote:
:

I don't agree.

They abandoned the super-hardness established in Dalek, and allowed them to become a fucking joke again, the kind of Joke that can be defeated with magic fairy dust, a couple of levers or by the incredibly mortifying Doctor-Donna operating a console that looked like a Tomy playset Rolling Eyes

RTD basically shat on all the good work Rob Shearman did to establish them as a threat again.


Yeah. If RTD had any sense, he would have delegated the Dalek stories
to someone like Shearman or Cornell. "Dalek" is an excellent story, and
establishes how dangerous the Daleks can be when well written.
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Tash



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 10:43 am    Post subject: Re: Did RTD make the Daleks too super villainish? Reply with quote

Vector-Victor wrote:
Yeah. If RTD had any sense, he would have delegated the Dalek stories
to someone like Shearman or Cornell. "Dalek" is an excellent story, and
establishes how dangerous the Daleks can be when well written.


My only problems with Dalek are that the 'Time War' shite rears it's ugly head for (I think) the first time and the Dalek goes all emo at the end and slashes it's metaphorical wrists.
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munkus



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wasn't Shearman pissed off at RTDs rewrites? Theres rumor they had a fight which is why he never came to do other episodes?
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Vector-Victor



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

munkus wrote:
wasn't Shearman pissed off at RTDs rewrites? Theres rumor they had a fight which is why he never came to do other episodes?


Not as far as I know. There were copyright problems with the Nation
estate, which meant at one point the Dalek was replaced with another
monster and Shearman had to keep re-writing it. But AFAIK Shearman
hasn't said anything about a fight with RTD-I can't imagine Shearman
keeping quiet about something like that.
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Professor



Joined: 15 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 11:11 am    Post subject: Re: Did RTD make the Daleks too super villainish? Reply with quote

Tash wrote:
Vector-Victor wrote:
Yeah. If RTD had any sense, he would have delegated the Dalek stories
to someone like Shearman or Cornell. "Dalek" is an excellent story, and
establishes how dangerous the Daleks can be when well written.


My only problems with Dalek are that the 'Time War' shite rears it's ugly head for (I think) the first time and the Dalek goes all emo at the end and slashes it's metaphorical wrists.


Jubilee, from which Shearman adapted his own script into Dalek, is an incredible piece of work. Dalek is no comparison.

And yes, I believe there was a falling out between RTD and Shearman. But I think it may have been that RTD didn't like what Shearman was trying to do, i.e. make intelligent drama, and RTD rewrote a lot of Dalek without Rob's permission so he was never invited back and Rob would never go back.

I imagine there's some kind of anti disclosure clause sewn into all the contracts because of RTD's fondness of big "surprises" and being the only go to guy for news about the show, which is why neither Shearman nor Eccleston do any talking about how shite it must have been.
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RobFilth



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Jubilee" pisses all over "Dalek" from a vey high height.
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Mistress Rani



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 11:44 am    Post subject: Re: Did RTD make the Daleks too super villainish? Reply with quote

Snodgrass wrote:
Personally, I noticed that the whole purpose of "Dalek" was simply to over-fetishise the Daleks. Honestly, it was essentially an advertisement, saying, OH LOOK, WE MADE THE DALEKS SUPER-POWERFUL, WAY BETTER THAN THOSE CRAPPY OLD ONES, EH?". Rolling Eyes

In the Classic Series, Daleks weren't invincible. They were immune to bullets, but they could be blown up with bombs and explosives, hell, they were ran over in "Dalek Invasion Earth". But in Classic Who, they weren't meant to be invincible. Sure they were armoured and they could hover( but not fly high in the sky like those stupid RTD Daleks.) way back in "The Chase".

What made the Daleks dangerous in the Classic Series was the fact that they were blood thirsty warmongers with a whole array of technology,super-weapons and war machines at their disposal. Not because "one Dalek could wipe out the entire US military".

Bullshit. Rolling Eyes
I disagree. If anything they are not strong enough and merely continue the trend of latter classic Dalek stories which don't really know how to handle them.
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Mistress Rani



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RobFilth wrote:
"Jubilee" pisses all over "Dalek" from a vey high height.
You seem to talk a lot about pissing on things
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munkus



Joined: 02 Jul 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mistress Rani wrote:
RobFilth wrote:
"Jubilee" pisses all over "Dalek" from a vey high height.
You seem to talk a lot about pissing on things


Only way to wash away the shit which is left over by your Turd Lord Davies.
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munkus



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 11:54 am    Post subject: Re: Did RTD make the Daleks too super villainish? Reply with quote

Mistress Rani wrote:
Snodgrass wrote:
Personally, I noticed that the whole purpose of "Dalek" was simply to over-fetishise the Daleks. Honestly, it was essentially an advertisement, saying, OH LOOK, WE MADE THE DALEKS SUPER-POWERFUL, WAY BETTER THAN THOSE CRAPPY OLD ONES, EH?". Rolling Eyes

In the Classic Series, Daleks weren't invincible. They were immune to bullets, but they could be blown up with bombs and explosives, hell, they were ran over in "Dalek Invasion Earth". But in Classic Who, they weren't meant to be invincible. Sure they were armoured and they could hover( but not fly high in the sky like those stupid RTD Daleks.) way back in "The Chase".

What made the Daleks dangerous in the Classic Series was the fact that they were blood thirsty warmongers with a whole array of technology,super-weapons and war machines at their disposal. Not because "one Dalek could wipe out the entire US military".

Bullshit. Rolling Eyes
I disagree. If anything they are not strong enough and merely continue the trend of latter classic Dalek stories which don't really know how to handle them.


Oh come on Rani. The only bad Dalek stories really were the Chase and Destiny. Apart from that they were a real threat. Also they showed cunning. Look at Death to the Daleks for example.
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