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Professor



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 10:38 pm    Post subject: Jon Blum talks crap on GB Reply with quote

Here's a treat.

Ok, a very sensible poster on GB - BetaWho said the following:

http://gallifreybase.com/forum/showthread.php?t=73501

Quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Via_The_Void View Post
Yeah. With the greatest of respect to the original series of which I love, the new series is more grounded in reality. It's more emotional, more dramatic, these are it's strengths.


I guess what I'm talking about is the focus of the reality it's grounded in. If you look at most of Classic Who, especially the Jon Pertwee years which were also grounded largely contemporary Earth based reality, you see that even when he was stuck on Earth the Doctor didn't spend a lot of his time around the "mundane."

To me, that was a strength. Because I can see the mundane world by turning off my TV. But Doctor Who, even when it wasn't going to strange times and distant planets, managed to show me things right here on Earth that I might not normally see.

An arctic base, underground research facilities, a space center, a naval base, a nuclear power station, etc. It showed me normal human people living different kinds of lives.

I think it's significant that the reason the Doctor's conversation with the bartender in Remembrance of the Daleks is so unusual is because he was talking to a bartender. (That is not meant as a putdown, but an observation.) Up until then, most everyone the Doctor associated with was not a normal 9 to 5 person. So to see him simply talking to a normal joe, simply working his shift, was different.

I don't mean that the Doctor was a snob, far from it. I simply mean that the show concentrated on showing us things we would not normally see our average workaday lives.

And, even without the monsters and aliens and weird worlds, I found that interesting. I don't need to see boring people living their boring lives in order to understand that the monsters are strange.

(By the way, I'm one of those boring, "9 to 5, make a living, workaday, beans on toast" people.)

I guess I find it kind of odd that New Who would glorify the "mundane" the way it seems to. And I do think something has been lost, when virtually everyone we see is just a "typical" person with no real dreams or aspirations other than getting by. (It's especially odd when New Who goes out of it's way to keep telling us how wonderful humans are, but keeps showing us the most boring, uninspired, aspects of ourselves.)

Classic Who used to make me excited about the world. That even here there were amazing, interesting things going on (without aliens) that humans were building and inventing and discovering things all around me.

New Who is sort of depressing when it talks about the "normal" world, since it seems to think that all humans are for is to get a boring dead end job.

(I find it significant that in "Inferno" drilling to the center of the Earth was considered a major undertaking, of importance to the government, to science, to the future of mankind. It was done in a high tech facility with all the best equipment, with highly trained personel, security guards, and "Advisors."

While in Hungry Earth, doing the same thing is treated as mundane as a coal mine. They're doing something amazing, yet no one seems to know about it, no one seems to care, and even the staff are just "jobbers" who don't even bother to live in the area.)



A good sensible argument with excellent points and without going over the top.

Here is the Bumster's reply:

Quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by betawho View Post
Have we lost something in the attempt to not "alienate?"

Oh, for the good old days when Doctor Who did such utterly unfamiliar things as Frankenstein in space, robot mummies on Mars, android doubles in an English village, and man-eating plants on Surrey Green... walking blobs of fat and a cat-nurse-nun treating a giant head in a jar just don't compare. Smile

Quote:
(I find it significant that in "Inferno" drilling to the center of the Earth was considered a major undertaking, of importance to the government, to science, to the future of mankind. It was done in a high tech facility with all the best equipment, with highly trained personel, security guards, and "Advisors."

While in Hungry Earth, doing the same thing is treated as mundane as a coal mine. They're doing something amazing, yet no one seems to know about it, no one seems to care, and even the staff are just "jobbers" who don't even bother to live in the area.)

And that's another bit of the memory cheating! "Inferno" makes an explicit point of featuring everyman figures to whom this is just a job, like Greg Sutton, and workers with no special attachment to the project like Slocum and Bromley. (We never find out how far down the road they live, because this is that weird era in Doctor Who where no one seems to need to sleep.) The main character who goes on about this project's importance to science is Stahlmann... a clearer reason why Nasreen doesn't act the same way isn't that she doesn't care as much, but rather that she's not a raving megalomaniac.

OTOH, if you want a case where new Who is explicitly romantic about the magic of Doing Science out on the edge of the unknown, you need look no further than "Impossible Planet / Satan Pit", where the Doctor gets not one but two inspiring speeches about how amazing the work they're doing is, challenging the sense of workaday defeatism that has crept in.

If there's a running theme to new Who, from "End of the World", it's that there are wonderful things going on *wherever* you look -- if you're dismissing familiar things as mundane, you're not looking at them the right way. Which is, again, the "daisiest daisy" speech writ large!

Cheers,
Jon Blum


Note my highlighted bit where the Bumster, after making a relatively sensible point about Inferno simply decides that actually, he is right, and that everyone else is "not looking at [things] the right way". As in HIS way.

What a wanker.

Renewed

Quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by betawho View Post
By that, I mean going to places and meeting people who live in familiar surroundings, have familiar ways, wear familiar clothes, etc.

The picture of the Tardis in head high grass, which happens to be in the banner at the top as I write this, makes me wonder.

Have we lost something in the attempt to not "alienate?"

Yes. I don't think there was ever any intention to be unfamiliar or daring with where the TARDIS has gone, more an attempt to do that in the writing. We go back in time to familiar settings, we go to the present and the future in familiar settings. Familiarity does breed contempt, but it's a budget problem. Maybe we need a film series to do Doctor Who some kind of justice, and help create some really different worlds and aliens that we can believe in.

As a side note, I love The Web Planet for trying to be alien, but in the end Vortis is still populated with familiar insects! The show needs to go much further than that.


Indeed, like insect headed aliens, or cat headed aliens, or rhino headed aliens, or pig headed aliens, or vulture headed aliens, or squid headed aliens, or fat farting aliens, or Peter Kay in a fat suit.

But because the classic series once had recognisable insects on Vortis or Lions in Warriors gate (as the thread goes into), it does not go as far as NuWho



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Rigsby



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 11:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Jon Blum talks crap on GB Reply with quote

Trying to justify very shallow television by treating it like its The Iliad = Jon Bum's average day.
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Mike



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laughing Someone should call the cunt up on that Vortis point.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Web Planet was infinitely superior to anything yet seen in NuWho, sure, the budget was low, but the writing and creativity of the production was out of this world. Blum seems oblivious to the fact that Whoremake has rarely strayed far from earth, let alone attempted to realistically depict non-humanoid alien races.
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Professor



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, should have made it clearer that the Vortis point is by a poster called Renewed.

Doesn't make the point any less shit though.
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Mistress Rani



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can't we stop all this playground sniping about other forum posters? It's all rather childish IMO.
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Tash



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mistress Rani wrote:
Can't we stop all this playground sniping about other forum posters? It's all rather childish IMO.


He doesn't post here, and he makes himself fair game for criticism.
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Mistress Rani



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tash wrote:
Mistress Rani wrote:
Can't we stop all this playground sniping about other forum posters? It's all rather childish IMO.


He doesn't post here, and he makes himself fair game for criticism.
But it's hardly mature to slag him off here. The adult thing to do would be to counter his opinion politely there
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mistress Rani wrote:
Tash wrote:
Mistress Rani wrote:
Can't we stop all this playground sniping about other forum posters? It's all rather childish IMO.


He doesn't post here, and he makes himself fair game for criticism.
But it's hardly mature to slag him off here. The adult thing to do would be to counter his opinion politely there

I've tried that, it doesn't help.

The man is a cunt, and this is fun.
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Tash



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mistress Rani wrote:
But it's hardly mature to slag him off here. The adult thing to do would be to counter his opinion politely there


From what I gather, it's impossible to argue with him, politely or not.
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Mistress Rani



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sure but Mike surely there's more about you than getting fun from such childish things.

Hope the job quandry is sorted out btw.
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Mike



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mistress Rani wrote:
Sure but Mike surely there's more about you than getting fun from such childish things.

Hope the job quandry is sorted out btw.

Course there is, and yeah, it's childish as hell, I'll admit that, but it's also not something I'd do if he didn't deserve it. I've tried reasoning with him and it just does not work.

On the dole at the moment! Cheers for asking!
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike wrote:
Mistress Rani wrote:
Sure but Mike surely there's more about you than getting fun from such childish things.

Hope the job quandry is sorted out btw.

Course there is, and yeah, it's childish as hell, I'll admit that, but it's also not something I'd do if he didn't deserve it. I've tried reasoning with him and it just does not work.

On the dole at the moment! Cheers for asking!
Don't let the Tories get you mate!
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Mike



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mistress Rani wrote:
Mike wrote:
Mistress Rani wrote:
Sure but Mike surely there's more about you than getting fun from such childish things.

Hope the job quandry is sorted out btw.

Course there is, and yeah, it's childish as hell, I'll admit that, but it's also not something I'd do if he didn't deserve it. I've tried reasoning with him and it just does not work.

On the dole at the moment! Cheers for asking!
Don't let the Tories get you mate!

Terrible time to be 18! Sad
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rani, no-one needs the moral guardian/school teacher act from a Rusty ringlicker like you. Laughing
Rag the fuckers to death! It's all they derserve! Razz
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