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munkus



Joined: 02 Jul 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike wrote:
So we're not Whovians, what are we?

We need a name that doesn't evoke cuntishness and the idolisation of third-rate hacks.


How about Terrances Dicks Very Happy
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Mike



Joined: 09 Nov 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

munkus wrote:
Mike wrote:
So we're not Whovians, what are we?

We need a name that doesn't evoke cuntishness and the idolisation of third-rate hacks.


How about Terrances Dicks Very Happy

Erm... Laughing
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Tash



Joined: 03 Jul 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 11:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sydney's Who Men perhaps?
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munkus



Joined: 02 Jul 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

a few other suggestions

Levine on me
Terrys Rasins
Letts party
Roberts Holmesies
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Mike



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Letts Party Laughing

Sublime.
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Mister Who



Joined: 25 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is an appealing idea. So are we going with McGann's Big Finish episodes until they finish or he regenerates and have that as the point of divergence between the Hive's universe and continuity and the NuWho universe?

Would we retcon any aspects of the TV movie?

I haven't listened to any of the BF audio's yet, but I gather that they're more in the spirit of Classic/True Who, right?

How would we organise this? Vote for a head writer/script editor and the various other roles? Would we select a real life actor as a base for the Hive's Ninth Doctor? Perhaps we could use the so-called Shalka Doctor? Again I haven't watched Scream of the Shalka, so I'm not sure of the consensus on that incarnation. We could even model our Ninth Doctor on Matt Smith.

Would we make a series bible - establishing things such as the regeneration limit?


Last edited by Mister Who on Wed Oct 13, 2010 12:03 am; edited 1 time in total
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Mike



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 12:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mister Who wrote:
This is an appealing idea. So are we going with McGann's Big Finish episodes until it finishes or he regenerates and have that as the point of divergence between the Hive's universe and continuity and the NuWho universe?

Would we retcon any aspects of the TV movie?

I haven't listened to any of the BF audio's yet, but I gather that they're more in the spirit of Classic/True Who, right?

How would we organise this? Vote for a head writer/script editor and the various other roles? Would we select a real life actor as a base for the Hive's Ninth Doctor? Perhaps we could use the so-called Shalka Doctor? Again I haven't watched Scream of the Shalka, so I'm not sure of the consensus on that incarnation. We could even model our Ninth Doctor on Matt Smith.

Would we make a series bible - establishing things such as the regeneration limit?

I think the idea is we give the eighth Doctor some adventures and then go our own way with our own ninth incarnation.

Not sure, as I don't mind the TV Movie.

The BF audios are definitely true to the spirit of the show, but sometimes they can be a bit... well... dull.

I think we'd all just pitch in and then vote on it or something!

As for the series bible, I'd definitely be up for that. Collate facts and figures etc and put one together.

Genesis (Of The Daleks), Revelation (Of The Daleks) etc. Laughing
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Professor



Joined: 15 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's entirely up to the individual I would say.

We tried this once before with the LH Animation project and everyone had different ideas and we spent so long arguing about whose were better and trying to please everyone we never went anywhere.

Forget what anyone else wants. Get some stories in. Then, once we have a stack, we can select the best for publishing, animation or audio. If we want to tidy them up, set them as a season, we can appoint a script editor who can clean things up at that point. So long as we make no attempt to make any money, we should be fine under copyright.
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Chancellor Valium



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Location: Behind the First Mystery which is the Last Mystery which is the twenty-fourth mystery and Great Amen

PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mmm. I approve the sentiment here, but... well... we tried this already, and found that creating something with broad-base appeal, intellect, and charm wasn't as simple as it looks, and isn't something you do in a spare fifteen minutes.

A ninth Doctor needs to be in the same vein as his predecessors and sufficiently different for the regeneration to actually be worth bothering about.

Unfortunately, McGann's Doctor is all too often a kind of soupy amalgam of previous Doctors, and my own attempts (as flagged up by Prof in the original discussions) ended up doing much the same.

And that's just the central character presenting paradoxes for us. You've still got the problem of scripts that will stand up to scratch, are original, and avoid either nostalgic Pertweeisms (plot-holes, padding and all), and meaningless innovations that depart from the spirit of the show.

Let's be clear: if we're going to make a go of this, great; but if we are, it needs to outdo the New Series in writing by leagues. And no, hyperbolic rhetoric about damp patches of creosote outdoing the New Series are not sufficient. This needs to be Doctor Who which stands as its own series, and that would stand whether it had the 'Doctor Who' label slapped on it or not.

And this is all before it comes to production proper, for which theme tune selection, actors, sound effects, sound recording are all necessary. It's a tall order, in short.

A writing collection is of course also possible, but I don't see it having much chance of taking off; there's already reams of fanfic online, and there'd be little to mark out the LH's collection in 'brand' terms. An audio or animated series would give it more of a competitive edge.

For my money, if this series needs its own subtitle, or if we need our own group name for this, it needs to be something that isn't an in-joke, or something like that. I'd go with something simple, akin to the 'New Adventures' line, or something.

If the group needs its own name, there are already a few small presses with names which indicate a kind of branding that seems to work: Big Finish, Magic Bullet, Telos Publishing, Mad Norwegian Press...

Also, I hate to point this out but selling something labelled 'Doctor Who' will bring legal action from the BBC. Putting up free amateur offerings online is one thing (regardless of quality, etc). Trying to sell work deriving from the BBC's flagship copyright without their consent is quite another, charity or not.

I think by now it's pretty clear that the Leisure Hive Animation Project was a near-total failure under my (attemped) leadership, and I'm sorry for that, but I couldn't give it the attention it needed. So, I'm here if you need me, but I won't be grabbing for the lead position this time, if that's OK.
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Professor



Joined: 15 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Someone does need to look into the copyright thing. Books like Campaign, Perfect Timing etc sold for charity without the BBC putting in. Copyright is there to stop others defrauding people by making money from their creations, regardless of how it is interpreted, none of us wish to do that. But selling for charity needs to be looked into so we know where we stand. The BBC may well be more aggressive than it was previously now it actually has Doctor Who to sell. Otherwise we do it on a purely amateur basis.


In terms of why the animation project failed CV. I think it was over ambitious by immediately trying to be the best. The first Audio Visuals were crap, the first few Big Finish were crap. NuWho has consistently been crap. Most fan productions are crap, or if they are long running, take a long while to get established.

Let's not front load the pressure. Let's just get some stories in and see where they go and what the quality is. People only get better at writing by writing. Let's not jump in the deep end because people will lose interest.

So, a step at a time. Get writing. Put it online and once we're up and running, then we can start to shape things. We want our Doctor back remember, that means your Doctor. Hell, if Terrance Dicks can't even write the Eighth Doctor properly, then there's no pressure. Write him as you see him. The EDA's characterisation was all over the place, so we just don't need to worry about that level of detail yet. The important thing is that you're passionate about bringing back our Doctor Who.
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Mister Who



Joined: 25 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 1:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I imagine this would be difficult. As for the Prof's idea of 'getting some stories in', I think there's a need to agree on at least a few key details - are we writing for McGann or our new Ninth Doctor? who are the companions? etc.

Perhaps we could proceed in something like the following way:

1. Get an idea of Hivers' credentials and talents - writing, acting, music production etc. Nominate a project leader(s) - someone with writing experience and a pretty comprehensive knowledge of Who.

2. Put together a basic Series Bible - I imagine covering every detail would be a massive project, but we could perhaps just take the most fundamental and contentious points - "how many times can the Doctor regenerate?", "are Time Lords produced by looms or by good old-fashioned sex?", "The origin of the Daleks" etc. and set them up as threads, discuss them for a certain length of time, then either vote on the final decision or leave it up to the project leader(s) for the final decision. We'd have to decide who can vote - could someone with fewer than 10 posts vote or even with fewer than 100 (like me)? We could add to the Series Bible, as we start to write.

3. Using a similar method, decide on which Doctor we're writing for, if we're going for a new one, perhaps nominate actors as a base, or discuss and vote on things like age, temperament, dress sense, voice/accent etc.

4. Decide or think about companions.

5. Carry out a first project as a test. If we're going for a new Doctor, this could be the script for the regeneration episode. We could nominate one writer for the episode, and then tweak the script as a group, or produce several scripts and vote for the favourite etc. If we can manage this, we can think about the format - audio play, animation etc. Perhaps still images with voice-overs rather than animation would be simpler? How many artists do we have here? If we do have audio doesn't that mean we can't do McGann - unless anyone knows someone who can do a good impression? Smile

Not sure if my suggestions are any good, but there they are nonetheless...
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B3



Joined: 09 May 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 6:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Davies is taking the piss out of fans of the show and should be ignored. He'd laugh at the shrill response evinced here. Which, I suspect, is his point.

Sad, I know, but it's best to let it go. It's been ruined by a clown, and there's nothing we can do about it.

On the bright side: Seeds of Doom is out on DVD soon.
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Mistress Rani



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 8:32 am    Post subject: Re: Leisure Hive Continuity Reply with quote

Professor wrote:
Russel T Davies, the single most offensive person on the planet.
I think you need to get out more. Rolling Eyes
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Mistress Rani



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tash wrote:
I might start work on an idea I've had for ages featuring the Eighth Doctor in an adventure in Victorian London involving the myth of Spring Heeled Jack.
Isn't that already a DWM comic strip with the 8th Dr?
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Mistress Rani



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike wrote:
Professor wrote:
Yes.

Either in writing, audio or film.

A Leisure Hive Fanthology (With profits donated to charity) of McGann stories could be a good start.

Love it.

I've written a few eighth Doctor fan fictions and he is brilliant to write for.

A Hive continuity sounds an excellent idea to me - we could have our own companion to travel with the eighth Doctor in a series of novels. Wonderful.
Big Finish are doing this rather well at the moment
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"I expect the BBC will quietly let Tennant go at the end of this year...." RobFilth 9/6/08
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