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_Liam_
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not calling you a mug, I was defending you! (I'm saying their criticism of you/manics/tmobile is unsubstantial)

You've taken it the wrong way. Look - I don't think rage against the machine is going to turn america towards communism & I don't think you do either

I'm criticising the dumbass kids and manchildren who think that bands like Rage Against the Machine are a symptom of iminent social upheaval, and that just by consuming their product you are adding to social change or something (if anything they're just reinforcing the social order by buying shit that keeps them amused & indoors for the evening)

What I meant was, you can raise awareness of issues & causes, but that's about it, you can't actually effect legislation, regime changes etc with 3 minutes of angry music. Like I said, "significant social change"

If this isn't the case, cite some examples of SIGNIFICANT social change (because that's what I was referring to, not trivial social change) caused by pop/rock music

You see what I mean? I wasn't laying into you, because I don't think you're dumb enough to believe rock can change the world to a significant degree. I agree it can introduce people to new ideas, but it's primary function is to entertain and distract, not educate & motivate

I mean people fly planes into buildings, but it doesn't stop America giving money to Israel, a million take to the streets but Blair still sent the boys in, so what the hell is writing a song that appeals to a fairly small chunk of the rock audience going to achieve

Make them feel like they're fighting the man for a little while, even though they're just standing there listening to music. False catharsis, now they might not bother actually going out and doing something. If anything it's quite possibly counter-productive

My other criticism wasn't of you, it was of people who often don't realise they're just as easily led as the people they slag off - ie people who slag off "sell outs", and they pay money for bands who cheerfully whore themselves (because you're not a sell out if you don't pretend to have principles, apparently)

I also dislike that attitude because it supports the perception that you are defined by what you consume

"I criticise bands who claim to have a social conscience yet do adverts. I listen to musicians who don't do things like that because I'm not naive"

it's a load of bollocks

Anyway the manics sing about man's inhumanity to man, mental illness etc... how does whoring your tunes to a phone ad make them hypocrites?

It's the same as the old "why are rage against the machine signed to a major label, eh, eh?" chestnut... er... they aren't anti-capitalist, so why is that even significant? Their songs are all critical of US foreign & domestic policy, they aren't the marching band of moshing workers or something


Last edited by _Liam_ on Fri Sep 10, 2010 5:49 pm; edited 3 times in total
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_Liam_
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By the way I love both the manics and rage, I have all of their albums and have seen the manics live half a dozen times, I'm not saying don't bother writing songs with a social conscience, but I'm saying don't pin any hopes on those sorts of songs, the very most they can achieve is getting somebody to maybe read up on something. Did generation terrorists cause people to smash banks up & stop being misogynistic? Ultimately did it even get the girls with the boas and vodka to read Kierkegaard? (I know they claim to, but I was always suspicious of the uncreased spines on their books)

It probably does change some people for the better, but I still think that most people willing to listen to these kinds of messages probably weren't part of the problem to begin with.

But we shouldn't lay into bands for trying, pretty much every person in the UK is an unethical sell out Laughing
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B3



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as I know, Helmut Lachenmann's music has never been used in an advertisment.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, but then he has been in Wire magazine, so he's not aversed to appearing in hipster bibles for money Wink
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_Liam_
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Listened to the new one... meh, sorry but not my thing. They still have great album art though Laughing what can I say, it just doesn't make me want to smash my flat up the way the old stuff did

Holy Bible, Generation Terrorists, Everything Must Go and Lipstick Traces are still the essential manics


TEN FOOT SIGN ON OXFORD STREET
BE PURE BE VIGILANT BEHAVE!
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Mike



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

_Liam_ wrote:
Listened to the new one... meh, sorry but not my thing. They still have great album art though Laughing what can I say, it just doesn't make me want to smash my flat up the way the old stuff did

Holy Bible, Generation Terrorists, Everything Must Go and Lipstick Traces are still the essential manics


TEN FOOT SIGN ON OXFORD STREET
BE PURE BE VIGILANT BEHAVE!

What do you reckon to Gold Against The Soul and Journal For Plague Lovers?
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_Liam_
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like Gold against the soul, particularly sleepflower, symphony of tourettes & the title track, and "yourself" is a fucking great pop song. Some good songs on there, seriously what chart bands today have lyrics like

I AM THE RAPING SUNGLASS GAZE OF SWEATING MAN AND ESCORT AGENCIES

Laughing Laughing Laughing


journal is ok, peeled apples is awesome but the rest still doesn't get me going too much. To be fair I haven't really sessioned it outside of the initial couple listens.

Anyway enough of this, I think it's about time you gave us the full dirt on your backstage blaggery at the manics gig the other night!
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Mike



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It wasn't really backstage but it was still fucking amazing! Basically I was going with a fellow Manics fan to stalk them before their gig at the Apollo. We arrived and the tour bus was there before picking them up, and the driver remembered her from the Blackburn gig she went to, and then the stage manager put her on the guest list with a plus one, so I told her to go with her mate, 'cause I'm nice see. So then a few more of her mates turned up and we waited for the tour bus to come back, it parks up right next to us and Nicky Wire steps off and walks right up to us!



After that my mate turns around and says that one of her friends has got in touch, she had a spare ticket and I could have it free! Fucking win!

Amazing gig but the crowd was intense, never been to anything like that before so didn't really know what to expect, people pushing forward and from the side, I could hardly fucking breathe! And towards the end some prick was jumping up and down with his hands on some guy he didn't even know and elbowing me in the face. Bad times, that ruined Design For Life for me! Still, it was free!

My leg locked up later that night while watching Blackadder, too, and that was agony. But it was SO worth it.

Wire wore a fucking skirt. Get in.
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Mike



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheDarkLord wrote:
Pleased for you Mike.

You look like you're in ecstasy.

I look retarded. Laughing I must have been laughing because that is a ridiculous smile!

Cheers. Smile
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheDarkLord wrote:
Mike wrote:
TheDarkLord wrote:
Pleased for you Mike.

You look like you're in ecstasy.

I look retarded. Laughing I must have been laughing because that is a ridiculous smile!

Cheers. Smile


Nah, don't be hard on yourself. You just look like an awe-struck fan.

Nice to know people understand why I went weak at the knees. Thanks Smile

It was surreal when he just stepped off the bus and walked up to us...

Part of me feels like I'd be even more awe struck if I met Tom Baker and the like - I wouldn't know what to say with him, though I suppose Baker's influenced me all my life and it was Liam and my mate Rachel who got me into the Manics just this year.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah that's a real result! Big gigs can be hard work with the heat and everything, but you get the hang of it after a while

setlist

#
You Love Us Play Video
#
Your Love Alone Is Not Enough Play Video
#
Motorcycle Emptiness Play Video
#
(It's Not War) - Just The End Of Love Play Video
#
Yes Play Video
#
Roses in the Hospital Play Video
#
Postcards From A Young Man Play Video
#
This Is Yesterday Play Video
#
Sleepflower Play Video
#
Autumnsong Play Video
#
Some Kind Of Nothingness Play Video
#
The Masses Against the Classes Play Video
#
Hazelton Avenue Play Video
#
If You Tolerate This Your Children Will Be Next Play Video
#
La Tristesse Durera (Scream to a Sigh) Play Video
(Acoustic)
#
You Stole The Sun From My Heart Play Video
(Acoustic)
#
Faster Play Video
#
Ocean Spray Play Video
#
Golden Platitudes Play Video
#
Suicide is Painless (Theme from MASH) Play Video
#
Motown Junk Play Video
#
Tsunami Play Video
#
A Design For Life Play Video


wow! really good set, roses in the hospital is great live... plus fucking sleepflower! what's going on?! they haven't played that since 1993 (as far as i know)
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