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Is it fanwank?
Yes
 89%  [ 25 ]
No
 10%  [ 3 ]
Total Votes : 28

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Vector-Victor



Joined: 21 Oct 2008
Posts: 2599
Location: Cork, Ireland

PostPosted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raynor is currently working on something called "The Fabulous Baker
Boys" (Oh, such an original title! Razz ) starring Eve Myles. :

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1708951/
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TR



Joined: 22 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mumbles wrote:
TR wrote:
No doubt RTD and The Moff will say " Oh we're pandering to the fans - we're merely being post modernist " . Post modernism is the final refuge of a wanker

Moffat especially is gulity as charged . He once said " We're not in the nostalgia business " then for some reason he brings back the Silurians . Bad enough but The Pandorica Opens was worse than anything RTD did in my opinion


Surely you jest Sir...

I can happily take or leave the Silurians, especially as it's explained that they are NOT the same species from Wenley Moor.

Moffat at the very least has tried to cut off the shitter writers from RTD's era, hello Helen Raynor and he gave Simon Nye and Richard Curtis a go, with smashing success in series fnarg.

One thing you can say about Moff, he actually gets decent, well-credentialed writers to write for the series, unlike Fat Head.

What's Helen up to these days ??? Probably in a Psych Ward still traumatised from all the criticism she copped from her fucking useless episodes.


Well everything is subjective but I was more disappointed by Season 5 than any other of NuWho . Just because the Silurians are a different species doesn't mean someone can do anything new with them Chibnell painfully proved . In fact The Hungry Earth was a pastiche of half a dozen suerior stories from the classic series . We also had the return of the stone angels and River Song preceeded by a Dalek story where the only good bits were ripped off from a David Whittaker 1966 script and lets not forget The Pandorica Opens alludes to have every monster from the show

You're correct about Curtis and isn't it strange it's the one story from this season that is truly original ?
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Snodgrass



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who voted "No"? Show yourself, Rani! Evil or Very Mad
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Greywoolfe



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was one of those who voted no- and I'm not afraid, nor ashamed to admit it. Yes, there have been some frightful clunkers in the new series, just as there have been in the classic, but there have been one or two utterly brilliant episodes as well, and the rest are pretty much not bad. Basically, what we've got is more or less what we used to have, and series 5 has so far shown that without RTD at the helm, the series will go from strength to strength. I will even go so far as to say that Matt Smith is the definitive 21st century Doctor, and will be hard to beat by any future incumbent in the role.
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_Liam_
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

/\ pretty much agreed, I've like/disliked pretty much the same amount of episodes since season seventeen
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xM002x
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^ Can't agree, I'm afraid.

The only good episode we had up until season 5 of New Who was Blink, which wasn't actually that great, IMO. I was really enjoying The Girl in the Fireplace, but then it just turns into ridiculous wankage. I liked the concepts in TGITF, which reminded me of something out of a Douglas Adams script. It was the first time in New Who that we actually had anything resembling a story with real thought and imagination behind it.

Classic Who was brimming with interesting ideas: The city with a brain in Death, time loops, E-Space, anti-reflective light waves in Planet, etc. What have we had from New Who? Fuck all. Now, I understand that people are in to Who for different reasons, but for me personally these are the things that really interest me about the show; the way the script writers made pretty ridiculous concepts seem real by their lexicon and knowledge. In Planet, for example, we see that the Daleks communicate with each other using radio waves which is how wireless networks operate now; the first wireless network was built in 1994 at Carnegie Mellon University. I'm not saying they thought up the idea of a wireless network before anyone else, but what I am saying is that there was real thought and wisdom behind the writing. They took far out concepts and grounded them firmly in reality, as opposed to the new series which takes humdrum concepts, puts them in a space shuttle and points them at the Moon.

Doctor Who writers, IMO, need to have a firm grasp of subjects outside of English literature. Sure, at the end of the day it is just a magic door, but purely treating it as such and writing it as such is completely misunderstanding the point and the audience.

EDIT: Sorry. Wikipedia is incorrect, I think, and there was certainly some work done during the 1970s. The first wireless network was built during the 1970s at the University of Hawaii, implementing a more efficient carrier sensing protocol in 1972 ( Computer Networks 4th edition, Tanenbaum ).


Last edited by xM002x on Tue Nov 02, 2010 3:23 am; edited 8 times in total
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Mistress Rani



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agree with Greywoolfe. The ratio of good stories to clunkers is no different to the original series run IMO.
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Moderator General



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The classic series may have had some clunkers but the vast majority of Fathead's era is hysterical, plotless drivel. Do you really not care about having stories that make sense?
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Professor



Joined: 15 Apr 2009
Posts: 1948

PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mistress Rani wrote:
Agree with Greywoolfe. The ratio of good stories to clunkers is no different to the original series run IMO.


What nonsense.

Series 5. Forgetting about Smith and Gillan, the actual stories have been shit apart from the weeping angels two parter and Amy's choice. That's 2 out of 8. The RTD series, that drops to maybe 1 in 9 or 10

Take any 8 consecutive classic who stories and you will get, at worst, 2 clunkers and 6 decent to brilliant stories.

Let's look at individual Seasons.
1: Clunkers: The Sensorites (Even The Keys of Marinus is enjoyable on its own terms)
2: Planet of Giants, Space Museum
3: (Many have faults, but nothing you'd call terrible)
4: Underwater Menace
5: Enemy of the World
6: (People will say Krotons or Space Pirates, personally I think both are excellent)
7: None
8: Axos?
9: Mutants, Time Monster (Although both have many fans and good points)
10: None
11: (Peladon, Death, Dinosaurs? All have critics, but none are downright terrible)
12: None
13: Planet of Evil
14: None
15: Invisible Enemy, (Underworld?)
16: Kroll
17: (Never actually watched; Creature, Nightmare, Nimon, which is the clunker?)
18: Leisure Hive (Meglos?)
19: Four to Doomsday, Time Flight
20: Terminus
21: Warriors, Twin Dilemma
22: None
23: Vervoids
24: Time and the Rani
25: Silver Nemesis
26: Battlefield

1: Rose, Aliens of London/World War 3, Long Game, Boom Town, Bad Wolf/Parting of the Ways
2: New Earth, Tooth and Claw, Rise of the Cybermen/Age of Steel, The Idiot's Lantern, Love and Monsters, Fear Her, Army of Ghosts/Doomsday
3: Smith and Jones, Shakespeare Code, Gridlock, Daleks in Manhattan/Evolution of the Daleks, The Lazarus Experiment, 42, Utopia/Sound of Drums/LoTL, Time Crash, Voyage of the Damned
4: Partners in Crime, Fires of Pompeii, Sontaran Stratagem/Poison Sky, Doctor's Daughter, Unicorn and the Wasp, Midnight, Turn Left, Stolen Earth/Journey's End
Specials: Next Doctor, Planet of the Dead, Waters of Mars, End of Time
5: Beast Below, Victory of the Daleks, Hungry Earth/Cold Blood, The Lodger, Pandorica Opens/Big Bang


Now all right, you might disagree with what I think are clunkers, and there's a disparity between the number of stories a year from Classic to Nu. But I think this definitely shows that actually, Classic Who has relatively few clunkers (And the only out and out terrible ones are Twin and TaTR). NuWho on the other hand, RTD didn't start out too badly in the first season, but ramps the shitness up to 11 for the next three seasons and the specials. Moffatt's first season is coming back down, but he could get better or worse next year.

Anyway, ratio firmly in favour of classic who.

In actual fact, I count 21 outright classic clunkers from 26 years. RTD reaches 21 clunkers by the end of Series 3.
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Snodgrass



Joined: 18 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

xM002x wrote:
^^ Can't agree, I'm afraid.

The only good episode we had up until season 5 of New Who was Blink, which wasn't actually that great, IMO. I was really enjoying The Girl in the Fireplace, but then it just turns into ridiculous wankage. I liked the concepts in TGITF, which reminded me of something out of a Douglas Adams script. It was the first time in New Who that we actually had anything resembling a story with real thought and imagination behind it.

Classic Who was brimming with interesting ideas: The city with a brain in Death, time loops, E-Space, anti-reflective light waves in Planet, etc. What have we had from New Who? Fuck all. Now, I understand that people are in to Who for different reasons, but for me personally these are the things that really interest me about the show; the way the script writers made pretty ridiculous concepts seem real by their lexicon and knowledge. In Planet, for example, we see that the Daleks communicate with each other using radio waves which is how wireless networks operate now; the first wireless network was built in 1994 at Carnegie Mellon University. I'm not saying they thought up the idea of a wireless network before anyone else, but what I am saying is that there was real thought and wisdom behind the writing. They took far out concepts and grounded them firmly in reality, as opposed to the new series which takes humdrum concepts, puts them in a space shuttle and points them at the Moon.

Doctor Who writers, IMO, need to have a firm grasp of subjects outside of English literature. Sure, at the end of the day it is just a magic door, but purely treating it as such and writing it as such is completely misunderstanding the point and the audience.


Agreed. The Classic Who writers were writing science fiction and they knew it. I know that the science was dodgy at times, but most of science-fiction is like that.

All I would like to add to your post is that the Classic Who producers and writers in the 60's and 70's were written by proper writers, not jumped up, over-promoted hack fanboys like we've got now. That's the reason the JNT era so polarized views. JNT attempted to cater to the fans, it didn't work well, and then Cartmel and Fanboys Co. took over the scripts. When the show snuffed it, the fans now had free reign over their obsession. This is where Muffit and Rusty and all those other Nu-Who "writers" became involved. The lunatics were finally in control of the asylum.
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Moderator General



Joined: 02 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Professor wrote:

Let's look at individual Seasons.
1: Clunkers: The Sensorites (Even The Keys of Marinus is enjoyable on its own terms)
2: Planet of Giants, Space Museum
3: (Many have faults, but nothing you'd call terrible)
4: Underwater Menace
5: Enemy of the World
6: (People will say Krotons or Space Pirates, personally I think both are excellent)
7: None
8: Axos?
9: Mutants, Time Monster (Although both have many fans and good points)
10: None
11: (Peladon, Death, Dinosaurs? All have critics, but none are downright terrible)
12: None
13: Planet of Evil
14: None
15: Invisible Enemy, (Underworld?)
16: Kroll
17: (Never actually watched; Creature, Nightmare, Nimon, which is the clunker?)
18: Leisure Hive (Meglos?)
19: Four to Doomsday, Time Flight
20: Terminus
21: Warriors, Twin Dilemma
22: None
23: Vervoids
24: Time and the Rani
25: Silver Nemesis
26: Battlefield


Dinosaurs & Planet of Evil, clunkers?!!! WTF?!!!
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xM002x
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^ Planet of Evil a clunker? Shocked
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Snodgrass



Joined: 18 Apr 2010
Posts: 191

PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So...who was the last member to vote "No"?

It is all right, you will not be shot...yet. Twisted Evil
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xM002x
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Come on, own up. Nothing will happen.

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Snodgrass



Joined: 18 Apr 2010
Posts: 191

PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

xM002x wrote:
Come on, own up. Nothing will happen.



The tank is for your protection, Rani. Wink
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