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Rigsby



Joined: 31 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 9:37 pm    Post subject: Proper writer slates New Who Reply with quote

Jimmy McGovern has revealed that he does not like the "tongue-in-cheek" approach to British drama.

Speaking to The Observer, the Street writer complained that many television programmes don't take themselves seriously enough.

Talking about shows including Downton Abbey and Doctor Who, he said: "Why write drama that doesn't matter?

"The only way to tell stories on TV is to convince people that what they are seeing is actually happening now and is real. I just can't handle the tongue-in-cheek approach, the kind of thing you see on Doctor Who. Though there are millions who can, I know."

McGovern also complained that many television executives "think they are better than the average television viewer", saying: "So you get this regurgitation of the same sort of thing. I am 60 years of age now and white and working class and if a story appeals to me, then probably lots of people will find it appealing too and the reason for telling the story will become clear as they watch."

He added: "I am all for telling good stories and although I used to try to change people's attitudes, I don't do that now. The point of the drama should be in the story."



Moffat responds:

"The tragedy is - no the irony - I DO take Doctor Who seriously," he wrote. "That IS me being serious. Hmm. Just lost the argument, haven't I?"

Matthew Graham throws pram toys outwards in response:

"Jimmy accusing Doctor Who of irrelevance," he said. "Perhaps the Doctor should rape all of his companions and turn the TARDIS into a crack den.

"Jimmy - some dramas are about northern people raping their sisters because of the legacy of Thatcher's government. Some dramas are about eccentric time travellers whisking their accomplices off on magical adventures. Some dramas gently and delightfully explore the social morays of the classes in 20th century England. Some dramas brilliantly and compellingly examine the interconnecting lives of residents in a single street."

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/tv/s7/doctor-who/news/a286633/tv-writers-respond-to-mcgovern-comments.html


Of course their just strawmen. the usual responding to a subtle point in primary colours you'd expect from those thin-skinned pricks in Cardiff. McGovern isn't slating all escapist television. He's slating the neither enough funny nor serious enough no mans land of mainstream crap that New Who exemplifies. The ironic in place of the creative. New Who can't play it totally straight ever because it doesn't have that kind of confidence in itself.

When people answer by pretending the question was something different to what it was, they know the criticism has a point. Like M Graham going on about "northern people raping their sisters because of the legacy of Thatcher's government.." even though McGovern had just criticised polemical drama himself.
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Laughing Spam Fritter



Joined: 01 May 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just wait for all the fundamentalist infants over at Gallifrey (de)Base to start fizzing and popping and bawling because a bad man said a bad thing about their favouwite pwogwamme...
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_Liam_
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If Jimmy McGovern says you're shit, you should just shut up and hope it blows over Laughing trying to dismiss his work as lurid or depressing just makes you look like a prick

The closest the new who lot have come to McGovern's greatness was when Gareth Roberts did the Novelisation of "Cracker: To Be a Somebody"
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War Arrow



Joined: 28 May 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

_Liam_ wrote:
If Jimmy McGovern says you're shit, you should just shut up and hope it blows over Laughing trying to dismiss his work as lurid or depressing just makes you look like a prick.


Jesus. I am so tempted to go over to GB, make this my sig, and look for a few of those threads. I really don't see how anyone can argue with this as you've phrased it.
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Rigsby



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

_Liam_ wrote:
If Jimmy McGovern says you're shit, you should just shut up and hope it blows over Laughing trying to dismiss his work as lurid or depressing just makes you look like a prick

It also doesn't help that the comedy in Cracker is way funnier than anything New Who or Life on Mars has produced.

Now there's a comparision to be made, Cracker vs Life on Mars. Television made by adults vs Television made by adults stuck in their childhood.
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_Liam_
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Although to be fair I have worded that rather shittily. Moffat hasn't criticised McGovern, it's that Graham fella who's being the bell end

"Jimmy accusing Doctor Who of irrelevance," he said. "Perhaps the Doctor should rape all of his companions and turn the TARDIS into a crack den."


Yep, because it's a clear cut choice between that and what DW is like now, isn't it? There's absolutely no middle ground or room for improvement. You silly, toadying sod Laughing
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Penny Woosnam



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now that the proper quotes have been edited in, Moffat's response seems all right to me.
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War Arrow



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay - just broken a promise I made to myself, that I wouldn't get too drawn into cross-forum baiting, quoting the testimony of gormless fucking shitewits... I mean er... persons who have every right to their opinion, but...

Jimmy McGovern thread at the other place: so far, so innocuous, loads of people agreeing that what Jimmy really meant is blah blah blah, and then...

Quote:
Bad Wolf/The Parting Of The Ways is the absolute high point of Doctor Who as a drama. It won the series a BAFTA, didn't it? It's genuinely affecting and the real drama comes from the characters and their interaction with each other. It's probably Russell's masterpiece. Russell is one of Jimmy's rivals in terms of writing good quality drama.


What a fucking knob!

Jesus. Fucking. Christ.
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_Liam_
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laughing Laughing Not worth bothering with, just leave them to it...

They either don't watch quality drama enough to know what it is

Or they do, and their tastes are so irreconcilably different that you will only ever argue

Or their sense of self worth & identity is so intertwined with Doctor Who that any criticism of it sends them in a narcissistic rage
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Chancellor Valium



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jimmy McGovern is to Moffat as Gaudi is to Frederick Gibberd.
Jimmy McGovern is to Russell T Davies as Gaudi is to Colley Cibber.
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Laughing Spam Fritter



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

_Liam_ wrote:
Or their sense of self worth & identity is so intertwined with Doctor Who that any criticism of it sends them in a narcissistic rage


I think you've summed things up perfectly here, m'lud.
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Shadow Doctor



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Didn't this exact same thing happen when Stephen Fry called Nu-Who a kids show?

God, that fanbase is more broken than I thought.

It seems that if you are somewhat well-known, criticize Nu-Who, you'll become a controversial hate figure. At least Moffat didn't attack him, like a certain Fathead would... Mad
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Ludders



Joined: 26 Jul 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 12:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheDarkLord wrote:
From: http://www.atvnewsnetwork.co.uk/today/index.php/atv-today/4588-screenwriter-jimmy-mcgovern-hits-out-at-drama

Quote:
Steve Hudson - What a c**t.
Jimmy McGovern is a idiot. I hope he dies. Mad



Charming.


And people wonder why Who fandom has such a tragic reputation.
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Ludders



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheDarkLord wrote:
Ludders wrote:
TheDarkLord wrote:
From: http://www.atvnewsnetwork.co.uk/today/index.php/atv-today/4588-screenwriter-jimmy-mcgovern-hits-out-at-drama

Quote:
Steve Hudson - What a c**t.
Jimmy McGovern is a idiot. I hope he dies. Mad



Charming.


And people wonder why Who fandom has such a tragic reputation.


Yeah, why can't they be more like us Hivers? Twisted Evil


Yeah, Hivers at least have some sense of self awareness of our particular brand of tragedy. Laughing
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War Arrow



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheDarkLord wrote:
He's right of course. This whole post-modern, self-referencing intertextual crap annihilates suspension of disbelief and effectively drives what could be decent drama into the realm of absolute farce.

The idea that you can only make drama in this way is perpetuated by fucking imbecile trendy writers like Davies, who wow the braindead with a few pop culture references, big explosions and the type of vomit-inducing emotionality that would make a Mills and Boon reader cringe.

The whole point of classic Who was to take the absurd and approach it as seriously as possible. It rarely (if ever) reached across the barrier between the audience and the story. New Who sticks its big over-sized priapic cock in the grave of the classic show. Every pop culture reference, piece of self-referential bullshit or change in tone so obtuse that you feel like banging your head against the wall destroys everything the show used to be about.


I completely disagree. New Who quite clearly has an extremely small cock.
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