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The Guardian's Greatest Films of All Time
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B3



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

qwerty123 wrote:
B3 wrote:
Of course, Tarkovsky's Solaris is far superior to the rest of that list.

2001 - a hugely ovverrated film by a hugely overrated director.


I definitely disagree with you on Kubrik and 2001! Kubrik's 60s and 70s work are pretty awesome imo. Amongst the finest 20th century cinema. He has a distinctive and recognisabe style and a, imo, profound understanding of how to make an excellent film.

I didnt like 2001 much when I was younger, but its minimalist aesthetic totaly does it for me and the pay off scenes at the end are epic!!

So there! Laughing


It's not that I don't consider it to be a good film - it's just not a great as people say it is. I can take or leave Kubrik's stuff, to be honest.
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xM002x
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Empire Strikes Back > A New Hope

Terminator 2 > Terminator ( why include both? )
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qwerty123



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

B3 wrote:
qwerty123 wrote:
B3 wrote:
Of course, Tarkovsky's Solaris is far superior to the rest of that list.

2001 - a hugely ovverrated film by a hugely overrated director.


I definitely disagree with you on Kubrik and 2001! Kubrik's 60s and 70s work are pretty awesome imo. Amongst the finest 20th century cinema. He has a distinctive and recognisabe style and a, imo, profound understanding of how to make an excellent film.

I didnt like 2001 much when I was younger, but its minimalist aesthetic totaly does it for me and the pay off scenes at the end are epic!!

So there! Laughing


It's not that I don't consider it to be a good film - it's just not a great as people say it is. I can take or leave Kubrik's stuff, to be honest.


Oh, fairy nuff Smile
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qwerty123



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

xM002x wrote:
Empire Strikes Back > A New Hope

Terminator 2 > Terminator ( why include both? )


I agree on both points actually. But imo Terminator 3 - the rise of the machines > terminator 1 and terminator 2


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Frazmataz



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

qwerty123 wrote:
I agree on both points actually. But imo Terminator 3 - the rise of the machines > terminator 1 and terminator 2


You're perhaps the only person who will ever think that, ever Laughing
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_Liam_
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

qwerty123 wrote:
xM002x wrote:
Empire Strikes Back > A New Hope

Terminator 2 > Terminator ( why include both? )


I agree on both points actually


+2

Terminator 2 is way creepier & more believable than the first. I love the change in Sarah Connor's circumstances & character, that's how you do a sequel

Qwerty I'm presuming you don't really prefer T3 & that the broken image would have made things clearer Laughing
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qwerty123



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frazmataz wrote:
qwerty123 wrote:
I agree on both points actually. But imo Terminator 3 - the rise of the machines > terminator 1 and terminator 2


You're perhaps the only person who will ever think that, ever Laughing


yeah, yeah. I know im niche Laughing

The softcore scene in the first one doesnt add anything to the film for me, and some of the supposedly comic moments in T2 leave me cold. The third is a good quality sci fi action movie imo, good effects and the story serves as the perfect vehicle for a series of impressive set pieces. I know that doesnt make it Ingmar Bergman, but it is hollywood after all Laughing
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

qwerty123 wrote:
_Liam_ wrote:
I still don't get why people hate The Matrix... I thought it was a nice consolidation of postwar scifi archetypes/cliches, the universe it is set within is pretty cool as well


Im with you on the matrix. I watched them at the cinema, have them on DVD and thoroughly enjoy them. I dont really get a lot of the hatred people have for them, but then thats just me I guess.
I saw the third one at the London IMAX and I can tell you it was absolutely flooring (in a good way).


I've discussed on here before, and DaveGranger or Iank (I think) said that they felt it had ideas above it's station, etc. I can see what they mean, but I don't find the films pompous to an offensive degree.

I'm not so keen on the sequels, although they are watchable (didn't like elements like rogue programs and the sudden loss of jeopardy, in the first it felt like it was dangerous to enter the matrix & they had to nip in and out fairly quickly, whereas in the other films they fuck around for hours, even meeting someone for dinner & having meetings), the first film felt like a cool little indie thriller in the vein of "Bound", but with a weird William Gibson twist to it, culimating in a big shoot em up/fight finale. Satisfying product. Other two felt more like big hollywood blockbusters, just like everything else
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qwerty123



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with your points about the sequels, but I still enjoy them pretty much equally to the first. They did lack the same sense of menace about the matrix, this is possibly atributed to Neo now having super powers, Laughing

A bigger budget does not equal a better film, but I think the brothers did make the films they wanted to make with the matrix trilogy.

They did reek of William Gibson though from start to finish, which on some level is no bad thing as I am a massive fan of Gibson's work; its just a shame that they havent signed up to make a film version of the sprawl trilogy and the bridge trilogy. I suspect that would have badass potential.
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Moderator General



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That list seems to contain a fair few films that have to be there just because they do, but how the hell did Starship Troopers get under the wire?

In terms of good sci-fi(ish) stories that're fun to watch, I'd keep Blade Runner, The Terminator and Dark Star and replace the rest with this far-too-middlebrow-for-the-Guardian selection:


Silent Running
Invasion of the Body Snatchers (1978)
The Thing

(Surely, those three should be on the list already?)


Saturn 3 - Martin Amis and naked Spartacus are vastly under-rated IMHO.

Aliens - Have you ever been mistaken for a man?

The Day the Earth Caught Fire - Black and white and red all over

Star Trek: The Undiscovered Country - Cry havoc, and let slip the dogs of war.

A Boy and His Dog - Harlan Ellison and a Blood hound... Miami Nice.

Phase IV - Saul Bass and Nigel Davenport... getting antsy.

Escape from New York - Whatever happened to John Carpenter?

Flash Gordon - Flash - a-ah - he'll save everyone of us.

Logan's Run - Jenny Agutter and friends.

Plan 9 From Outer Space - so much better than Plan 8.

The Quiet Earth - It's from New Zealand. Surely it's always quiet?

Rollerball (1975) - best pen movie ever.

Splash - She was only the fishmonger's daughter...

Weird Science - nothing weird about LeBrock.

The Wizard of Speed and Time - but the effects are terrific.

Westworld - the good version of Jurassic Park.

and finally...

Virus (1999)
Coneheads
Tremors

...well, I liked 'em.
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qwerty123



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moderator General wrote:
That list seems to contain a fair few films that have to be there just because they do, but how the hell did Starship Troopers get under the wire?

In terms of good sci-fi(ish) stories that're fun to watch, I'd keep Blade Runner, The Terminator and Dark Star and replace the rest with this far-too-middlebrow-for-the-Guardian selection:


Silent Running
Invasion of the Body Snatchers (1978)
The Thing

(Surely, those three should be on the list already?)


Saturn 3 - Martin Amis and naked Spartacus are vastly under-rated IMHO.

Aliens - Have you ever been mistaken for a man?

The Day the Earth Caught Fire - Black and white and red all over

Star Trek: The Undiscovered Country - Cry havoc, and let slip the dogs of war.

A Boy and His Dog - Harlan Ellison and a Blood hound... Miami Nice.

Phase IV - Saul Bass and Nigel Davenport... getting antsy.

Escape from New York - Whatever happened to John Carpenter?

Flash Gordon - Flash - a-ah - he'll save everyone of us.

Logan's Run - Jenny Agutter and friends.

Plan 9 From Outer Space - so much better than Plan 8.

The Quiet Earth - It's from New Zealand. Surely it's always quiet?

Rollerball (1975) - best pen movie ever.

Splash - She was only the fishmonger's daughter...

Weird Science - nothing weird about LeBrock.

The Wizard of Speed and Time - but the effects are terrific.

Westworld - the good version of Jurassic Park.

and finally...

Virus (1999)
Coneheads
Tremors

...well, I liked 'em.


the quiet earth is a ggggrrrrrreat film! It deserves much more attention than it gets. I was looking for a copy for ages. Flash gordon, Aliens and escape from new york - agreed. Excellent films. If I was going to represent the trek films I dont think I would have chosen that one though, probably kaaaaaaahn or at an absolute push first contact (which is one of the few tng related things I dont object to).
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where are The Wrath of Khan and Flash Gordon?
B3 wrote:
Star Wars - ruined American cinema.

This is an interesting comment. This is a grammatical remark. (That was a grammatical remark.)

Err. More seriously, could you expand on the comment? I'm curious as to what ruining American cinema means, here.

B3 wrote:
It's not that I don't consider it to be a good film - it's just not a great as people say it is. I can take or leave Kubrik's stuff, to be honest.

One of the massive problems with 2001, is, I think, so massive that very, very few people spot it: for most of the film, nothing happens. And this is then dressed up as profundity, with some nice snatches of 19th century music and (headache-inducing) excerpts of Ligeti.

The film's storyboard can be summed up with:

PART I: Monkeys.
i. Monkeys.
ii. Monolith.
iii. Monkeys smash bones.

PART II: PIGS IN SPAAAAAAAAACE
i. Zer ships off zer space, vot vunderful music zey make.
ii. Pointless telephone conversation and other banalities
iii. OOH, LOOK - THERE'S A PLOT.
iv. Wait, no - just more twirling ships.
v. BUT MORE PLOT.
vi. Whoops, my mistake.

PART III: SPERM-SHAPED SPAAAAACE-SHIPS IN SPAAAAAAACE
i. Hello, Dave.
ii. I'm just a little anxious, Dave.
iii. I seem to be killing people, Dave.
iv. Please, don't kill me, Dave.
v. Goodbye, Dave.

PART IV: JUPITER AND BEYOND PRETENSION
i. Who builds a prop like this? Find out as we go... through the monolith.
ii. My God, it's full of... is that Tom Baker?
iii. Welcome to my newest art installation. I call it... aging. It's... very profound. Very moving. Movingly profound. It's about love. And people. And people we love. I think you should pay lots of money for it.

PART V: BABIES IN SPAAAAAAAAACE.
i. Er, that's it.
ii. THE END
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qwerty123



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



Cool
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Frazmataz



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

qwerty123 wrote:


Cool


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiVYjRbZMe0
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Rigsby



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chancellor Valium wrote:
Where are The Wrath of Khan and Flash Gordon?
B3 wrote:
Star Wars - ruined American cinema.

This is an interesting comment. This is a grammatical remark. (That was a grammatical remark.)

Err. More seriously, could you expand on the comment? I'm curious as to what ruining American cinema means, here.

B3 wrote:
It's not that I don't consider it to be a good film - it's just not a great as people say it is. I can take or leave Kubrik's stuff, to be honest.

One of the massive problems with 2001, is, I think, so massive that very, very few people spot it: for most of the film, nothing happens. And this is then dressed up as profundity, with some nice snatches of 19th century music and (headache-inducing) excerpts of Ligeti.

The film's storyboard can be summed up with:

PART I: Monkeys.
i. Monkeys.
ii. Monolith.
iii. Monkeys smash bones.

PART II: PIGS IN SPAAAAAAAAACE
i. Zer ships off zer space, vot vunderful music zey make.
ii. Pointless telephone conversation and other banalities
iii. OOH, LOOK - THERE'S A PLOT.
iv. Wait, no - just more twirling ships.
v. BUT MORE PLOT.
vi. Whoops, my mistake.

PART III: SPERM-SHAPED SPAAAAACE-SHIPS IN SPAAAAAAACE
i. Hello, Dave.
ii. I'm just a little anxious, Dave.
iii. I seem to be killing people, Dave.
iv. Please, don't kill me, Dave.
v. Goodbye, Dave.

PART IV: JUPITER AND BEYOND PRETENSION
i. Who builds a prop like this? Find out as we go... through the monolith.
ii. My God, it's full of... is that Tom Baker?
iii. Welcome to my newest art installation. I call it... aging. It's... very profound. Very moving. Movingly profound. It's about love. And people. And people we love. I think you should pay lots of money for it.

PART V: BABIES IN SPAAAAAAAAACE.
i. Er, that's it.
ii. THE END

alternately

http://www.kubrick2001.com
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